Joe Geiser seems to like the unblazed
trail. He set out on one
early last year to found a company
dedicated to creating client-server
and Web-based applications, after years of
working in HP 3000
corporate datacenters in the insurance,
finance and manufacturing
industries.Geiser has worked with the 3000
since 1979, and client-server
since 1989. Now in addition to being the
senior partner in CSI
Business Solutions, hes the co-chair
of the Interex SIGWeb special
interest group and awash with answers about
new HP 3000 technologies
such as Samba, ODBC middleware and Windows
NT integration. Geisers
name shows up plenty on the HP 3000
Internet newsgroup, delivering
answers to how-to questions and opinions
about what HP 3000 customers
and their favorite vendor should do next.
With HP hard at work
delivering a mainstream Web server for the
HP 3000 and the MPE
Programmers Forum just in the offing,
we took time to quiz one
of this markets Web wiseguys about
the potential for clients
both thick and thin, and how it feels to
become a 3000 entrepreneur
after toiling on the corporate rockpile.
You head up a company with
client-server in its name, but act
as co-chair of a Web Special Interest
group. Do you expect Web
technology to supplant client-server needs
for HP 3000 hosts?
Whats the advantage of each
technology choice, from your perspective?
Web technology is client-server
technology, albeit in another
form than what most people
associate with client-server. Most
folks look at client-server
applications as a Windows-based application
which accesses a data source, not
on the local PC (like Image/SQL).
A Web-based (or
Webbified as I like to call it) application,
or even a static Web site, is a
client-server application as it
involves a client (ones
favorite browser) and a server (a Web
server such as Apache, QWEBS, the
upcoming Netscape FastTrack
server for the 3000, or IIS and a
raft of others for NT, as well
as the usual suspects for HP-UX and
other systems.
People have asked whether the HP
3000 could also serve as a Web
and database server. I always say
Sure, why not? The HP 3000
can do anything that any other
platform can perform, do it as
well, if not better than other
platforms, and if it involves data,
can serve that data up easier and
faster than many platforms.
Thats a rather bold
statement, I know, but a programmer with
knowledge of COBOL can crank a
Webbified app using QSS QWEBS,
writing a subroutine stored in an
XL, and do so rather quickly
and easily.
Youve worked extensively with
Samba for your clients and offer
a Java-based solution through
Minisofts Javelin. What is it about
Samba thats prompted more support
from HP itll be in 6.0
than Java has been able to muster?
Theres a big difference
between Samba/iX and Java/iX in terms
of application category. Samba/iX
is a product thats been available
for some time and became quite
popular after Lars Appel (HP Response
Center, Germany) performed the
first several ports. This product
really starts bringing the PC and
the HP 3000 file systems together
into one interface, such as Windows
Explorer, and provides the
ability to run print to an HP 3000
system printer.
Java/iX, on the other hand, has
a smaller following, but one that
is just as fierce and loyal. It too
was ported by an HP employee,
Mike Yawn. Its momentum is gaining,
and if a true and well-performing
JDBC does emerge for MPE/iX, either
from within HP or a third
party, this momentum will gather
steam very quickly.
I cant speak for HP, but
in my heart of hearts, I feel that CSY
wants both, but resources need to
be allocated to what customers
want now. CSY has become more
customer oriented (although there
a few war stories), and CSY seems
to want to provide what the
customer is looking for. Believe
me, if CSY had no interest in
Java/iX, we would not be seeing
porting interest from within CSY
on HP 3000-L and other venues.
Customers who work in all-3000 shops
show some reluctance to putting
a Web server on their systems that host
mission-critical databases.
What kind of assurance can you give them
that data will remain
secure if they use the 3000 as an
e-commerce engine?
Ive seen this reluctance
as well. There are several factors at
play here, most surrounding the
issue of security. First, no one
wants to have their
mission-critical data exposed to the Internet.
No one would be foolhardy enough to
have their mission-critical
HP 3000 systems exposed without a
firewall in place.
In addition, many IT
professionals and executives are not educated
on all aspects of firewall
operation, and how it keeps out the
bad guys. (No one ever
accused me of being politically correct,
but in the interest of fair play,
this includes the ladies too).
There are many ways to solve the
issue, but it all revolves around
education, from the top brass all
the way down to the systems
engineering and programming staff.
I sincerely believe that once
the security issue is addressed
(both in terms of data access
and system breaches), more and more
projects will be initiated.
There is one area where all-HP
3000 installations have a problem,
and that is the fact that a Web
server on their HP 3000 is now
another application to handle,
another application to manage and
learn, and more overhead on a
system which may (or may not) be
strained. There are no hard and
fast answers to this issue. Its
the applications served by the Web
server which will determine
how much more overhead will be
generated.
ODBC, native JDBC, Adagers ADBC
theres a lot of connectivity
technology coming available for 3000s. Is
it enough to eliminate
the need for non-3000 hosts in a
network?
Thanks for the loaded question.
In all seriousness, there is no
yes or no
answer here. Looking at the issue subjectively,
yes, there is a case to eliminate
NT, Unix, NetWare and every
other operating system other than
MPE, and still get the job done.
Looking at it objectively, as any
IS professional should do, the
answer is not so clear-cut.
What if, for example, the
enterprise includes a DB2 database?
This happens companies
acquire other companies, and at times
they dont always merge
systems, or if they do, it takes awhile.
What if the company is small and
has one or two Windows NT servers
with Internet Information Server
and an HP 3000 Series 928? Given
the choice for many people, IIS is
easier to administer, easier
to learn, integrated with mail
(Exchange), ODBC (IMAGE/SQL and
Allbase), MS Message Queue and
Transaction Server. Thats a lot
of power, which can be administered
very easily.
So, do you use ODBC with IIS or
another Web server via NT? Do
you use Apache or the upcoming
Netscape FastTrack server with
CGI scripting or JDBC? A lot
depends on skill set and resources.
You made the leap from MIS staff to
owner of your own firm serving
the 3000 community. What has the experience
taught you about the
value of your HP 3000 background? Did it
help make you more marketable
than someone with higher-profile skills in
say, just NT or Unix
systems?
Even though our company
primarily serves the HP 3000 market, we
do have disciplines in other areas,
most notably all flavors of
Windows and most variations of
Unix. We have brought a diverse
set of skills to the table because
we realize that we may need
to work with a variety of
platforms, not just an HP 3000.
A case in point would be a
client in New York state. This client
used the HP 3000 for one segment of
their business (legacy data),
but used Windows NT Server and
Microsoft SQL/Server in another
segment (document handling, imaging
and workflow). The objective
was to merge the two into one
application which permitted users
to view both data and documents
within the same interface. We
handled this with a combination of
ODBC from the desktop, ActiveX
to the Imaging system, and
presented the user with a tabbed notebook
for each item being viewed. A
tree in the left pane allowed
the user to navigate between items,
and the tabs allowed movement
between legacy data, image index
and images.
So what this has taught me, and
those who work with me, is that
one needs to have an open mind when
it comes to designing applications,
and to be creative. MIS shops today
still have a lot of restrictions
on how applications are developed.
I like creativity (which usually
comes at 2:00 to 3:00 a.m.).
Sometimes I need to get really creative
to solve an issue. With the
example, the creativity was the simplicity.
When the users saw the application
for the first time, they were
absolutely in awe. We didnt
have to change a thing.
What benefits do NT servers bring to
3000 sites that MPE customers
would have a long wait for otherwise?
Again, I dont subscribe to
hard and fast rules that an NT server
must be part of an
organizations IT infrastructure, but there
are advantages in many cases.
The first, of course, is file
and print sharing for PCs. Combined
with Samba/iX, PCs can be backed up
to one or more NT Servers.
Taking that one more step, these
can be backed up to the HP 3000,
and included as part of the overall
backup strategy.
Secondly, we always look at
applications. There are some applications
which are a better fit for a
business, or only available on an
NT platform. These two operating
system environments and objects
contained within them can be
brought together in a single application
like the imaging application I
spoke of earlier.
I have to say what a lot of
other people are saying, and have
said for some tim the
computer is no longer just a box in a
glass room. The
computer is the Network. There is a collection
of computers on a network, and we
shouldnt care whether its
MPE/iX or NT, because they can both
work together, and do what
they do best.
MPE/iX has superior online
transaction processing. Combine that
with NTs capabilities and an
organization can have the best of
both worlds. Many folks are using
offline editors now like Facade
and Whisper Programming Studio.
These are Windows applications
that are working hand-in-hand with
MPE/iX, even down to the Compile
and Test level. Again, it
aint just a box anymore its the
network.
Will FastTrack be enough Web server
for the HP 3000s? More advanced
servers seem to be available for NT and
Unix systems.
Netscape FastTrack is an
excellent entry-level to midrange server.
Its easily managed and serves
intranet and Internet Web sites
very well. Netscape has more robust
server software available,
however, the FastTrack server
software is used for the purpose
HP is introducing it. The fact that
this is FastTrack, the fact
its from Netscape (even with
their recent news) tells people
that its a quality product.
The fact that HPs bundling it free
of charge will get people to try
it.
The one thing I have found over
the years is that, other than
a core group of HP 3000
professionals who like living on the bleeding
edge to stay one to two steps
ahead, the HP 3000 community are
not early adopters. Client-Server
applications are a perfect example.
The majority of HP 3000
applications today are terminal-based
applications, even with the
availability of three, very good,
commercially available ODBC drivers
(ODBC/32 from Minisoft, Linkway
from CSL, and ODBCLink/DataExpress
from M. B. Foster). HP also
had PCAPI, which was free, bundled
with IMAGE/SQL, and a good
entry point. Its just within
the last 12 to 18 months that interest
has really taken off, but the
technology has been available since
the late 1980s, with ODBC available
since the early 1990s.
I think that after people try
FastTrack, they will like it and
continue to use it. Its
alternative is Apache. It too is free
but not supported in the same
manner as FastTrack will be. If
a customer outgrows FastTrack, they
can go to Apache with little
effort, in most cases. Thats
the beauty of the Web the many
standards in place today.
HP seems to be on the fence about
supporting Java/iX. Will the
language ever become important enough to
build mission-critical
applications without HPs official
support?
I really wish you didnt
ask this, because my answer is hated
by many. Java is a wonderful start
to a language that will permit
cross-platform application
development. I have serious reservations
as to whether that objective can be
completely met. Microsofts
already released their variation to
the Suns standard, and even
Netscape has admitted that they
too, introduced several variations,
as has Digital. I see some
fragmentation starting already, which
does not bode well for the
objective.
Secondly, I have a problem with
any one commercial entity owning
the specifications to any
programming language/ application development
tool. This includes, by the way,
Microsoft with their Visual [fill
in the blank] languages. Microsoft
has taken BASIC, for example,
and placed a lot of proprietary
extensions into it. I would like
to see Java placed under the
control of an independent entity
to set the standards. In this way,
all players have to play by
a single set of rules. I strongly
feel that if this happened earlier,
we would not have a Sun/Microsoft
suit today.
Lastly, the language is still
young and I have yet to see one
mission-critical application or
applet written with Java. Ive
seen a lot of applets (and
craplets) which make images giggle,
all the way to MiniSofts
Javelin, which goes a long way to turning
around how terminal emulators are
sold and licensed. But I have
yet to see one application which a
company could not operate without.
The closest I saw was the port
of Corels PerfectOffice to Java.
It was touted at last
Novembers Java conference as a clear, mission-critical
Java application. The one minor
detail which was not mentioned
was that Corel scrapped the project
after it found it could not
get the performance required out of
Java that they could with
C++. I call that a major
oops.
Should HP continue its port?
Absolutely! Will Java take off? Absolutely!
What are the two most common
misconceptions about using ODBC middleware
to access HP 3000 information?
What am I, takin a test
here? Okay, one is performance and the
second is the proprietary nature of
ODBC, being a Microsoft standard.
Performance is solved in a
couple of areas. First, use a workstation
that can handle the amount of data
being read and written. Second,
the driver has a lot to do with
speed. I cannot and will not get
into a report card of drivers here,
although I have run every
single one through a test suite on
the 16- and 32-bit levels,
and have statistics on them;
suffice it to say that some are better
than others in certain instances.
Lastly, and related to the driver,
is the application itself. Is this
application read only, or
are there writes and updates
involved? How much data is involved?
All of these factors go into the
raw performance issue.
In addition to the application,
there is network performance,
and the issue of the developer.
ODBC-based applications are not
developed like a standard
host-based COBOL program. With a client-server
based application, data is
physically moved over network wiring
to a PC for use. If the network is
not performing to par, or is
not fast enough to accommodate the
amount of data being sent,
performance will suffer. If the
application is not designed in
the proper manner, performance will
suffer.
On the subject of the ODBC
standard, Microsoft had the foresight
(just as Sun had the foresight for
Java) to come up with one standard,
to allow an application to use data
from multiple database management
systems. Database vendors jumped in
and created drivers to this
standard. Should it be turned over
to a standards body? I would
be hypocritical if I said
no. I think ODBC and JDBC should be
controlled from an independent
source. This is a perception problem
though. ODBC itself has been around
for some time, and has gotten
a lot better since its dismal
inception. The idea was sound, and
Microsoft came through, as did the
database vendors.
Can Web technology bring applications
to the HP 3000?
Absolutely, and they will come.
Some vendors are already working
on updates to their applications to
include Web-based components.
Now, Webbifying an
application, or even components, is not for
all. For example, Web-enabling a
heads-down data entry application
is not a good idea. Web enabled
applications are great for general
browsing of data, general
inquiries, and for applications which
can be used from the road such as
passive order entry by a sales
rep from the prospects office
or by a customer in their own homes.
Yes, Web applications and
components will come, just a Java/iX
will emerge on the scene. It will
take some time, but the projects
are already underway.
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